Concrete floors on the ground with insulation. Do you need woolen socks for your grandchildren or how to insulate the floor in your house?

Subscribe
Join the “koon.ru” community!
In contact with:

The installation of the floor in a private house is determined by design features buildings. With or without a basement, but if the floor is installed on the ground, then the screed or concrete slab is mounted separately from wall panels. Concrete is not the best best material To ensure comfortable warmth on the ground, insulation is therefore necessary. However, this installation option is not suitable for too loose soil or where is the level groundwater too high.

Arrangement of heated floors – multi-layer construction, in which different insulation materials can be used.

Technological features and layer options

Carrying out floor insulation work in a private house is possible in two ways, differing in the type and choice of underlying layer

Concrete layer


It is considered the main insulation pie. The sequence of laying layers of insulation for an earthen floor with your own hands:

  1. Compacted. Consists of backfilling previously removed soil. Compacting is done once to a thickness of 200 mm. This measure helps reduce the risk of cracks appearing in the future floor. How to do this is shown in the video.
  2. Shchebnevy. Medium-fraction moistened crushed stone (fraction sizes 20-60 mm) must be poured in a thick layer (70 mm), leveled and compacted. The purpose of the layer is to further compact the soil base.
  3. Underlying concrete. The purpose of the layer is as a base for waterproofing. Recommended thickness is 60-70 mm, concrete grade M100 is applicable. Laying is done smoothly, without sudden changes.

Important! After installing the insulation, the height differences should not be more than 3-5 mm per 2-meter strip.

  1. Waterproofing layer. Roofing felt, film laid in two layers, polymer-bitumen or PVC membrane are used.
  2. Insulation. Insulation is carried out horizontally and on a dry surface. It is important to maintain the integrity of the sheets and careful joining. Cold bridges formed on the side of the foundation are eliminated by vertical laying of insulation with a height of 40-50 mm. Moreover, they need to be secured with dowels.

Important! After laying the insulation, you need to check the level of the surface - it should be located at the level of the horizontal waterproofing layer of the foundation.


  1. Vapor barrier. In a private house, it is best to use polymer-bitumen membranes. In addition to the fact that installation is easy to do with your own hands, the material has an excellent price/quality ratio. When laid on top of an earthen floor, the membranes do not rot, last a long time, but are more expensive than plastic film. You can also work with it on the ground, if it is not damaged when pouring concrete, but it is impossible to check its integrity after this operation. Therefore, the film must be laid in 2-3 layers.
  2. Cement screed. For installation, you need an M100 solution; the layer is reinforced with wire mesh with a cell size of 100*100 mm.

Concrete preparation can be replaced with a sand cushion. The size is 150 mm, and the sequence of arranging the floor insulation cake is the same. But this option will not ensure an even surface in a private house, even if the soil layer is perfectly leveled.

Thermal insulation of floors: methods and features


  • Expanded polystyrene, polystyrene foam. Insulation of an earthen floor requires laying 30 cm of gravel in the base, covered with a concrete screed (100 mm). The foam slabs are laid on waterproofing, on top of which a 4 cm thick screed reinforced with a steel/polymer mesh is applied. The installation is completed with a finished floor. You can lay waterproofing on top of the slab so that the screed is covered with foam. This method prevents the solution from getting between the plates of material and, accordingly, prevents the formation of cold bridges.
  • Extruded polystyrene foam. The hardness of the slabs allows the material to withstand significant loads, so it can be laid directly on gravel. The feature of not absorbing moisture ensures ideal specifications material when working on soil where the water level is quite high. But to create heat in a private home, the thickness of the layer of material must be at least 8 cm.
  • Polyurethane foam. Work is carried out only with the hardest slabs. Low vapor permeability and high thermal insulation properties provide a good insulation layer on any soil. Moreover, when working with an earthen floor, you can choose thinner slabs.
  • Minvata. Just as when working with expanded polystyrene, you need to choose dense, rigid boards that are resistant to deformation. Laying over the subfloor is carried out in 1-2 layers. To reduce the level of moisture absorption, you need to treat the slabs with a waterproofing agent. Laying thickness 10 cm.

Advice! The lush structure of mineral wool fibers requires complete isolation from the ground, as well as from subsequent layers laid on the wool.


Insulation under the finished floor can be done quickly and easily using expanded clay. Light weight, porous structure of the base will provide high thermal characteristics with low moisture absorption. When doing work with your own hands in a private mansion, you need to choose fractions of no more than 8-16 mm, while additional waterproofing is not required when backfilling a thick layer. There is also no need to lay/fill layers of gravel, screed and heat-insulating material. It is enough to pour expanded clay layer by layer to a thickness of 15 cm and compact it. To strengthen the base and simplify work with the finished floor, the expanded clay layer must be filled with a layer of lean concrete. After 24 hours, the surface hardens into a crust, on top of which the waterproofing is installed.

Finally

To insulate a dirt floor on our own, you don’t need a lot of financial investment and time. To create an insulation cake over an earthen surface, the following are suitable:

  • Foam glass is quite environmentally friendly and durable material, ensuring long service life. Has low thermal conductivity and insufficient resistance to mechanical stress;
  • Perlite. Similar to expanded clay, but has higher technical and practical characteristics;
  • Sawdust. The mixture soaked in clay is placed directly on the ground cut.

It is necessary to insulate floors along the ground, since there is no flooring will not protect you from the cold that comes directly from the ground. And in the opposite direction the heat will leave the house. The thermal insulation layer in ground floors must be of sufficient thickness and economically feasible so that heat loss through the floor complies with the standards (SNiP).

Thickness of the thermal insulation layer

For unheated floors, a minimum of 10 centimeters of polystyrene foam will be required. temperate climate. And with the “water heated floor” system, it is recommended to lay at least 15 cm of polystyrene foam, since the temperature difference through the insulation layer can reach 25 - 30 degrees, and each added centimeter significantly reduces heat loss and saves money.

Floors on the ground are made in accordance with design decisions, on stable soils, after geological research. This design must ensure the stability of the foundation during frosty ground movements, i.e. immobility of the foundation relative to the ground inside the house.

Before we talk about insulating floors on the ground, let’s take a closer look at their design.

How to make floors on the ground

Insulating floors on the ground will not make sense if the floors themselves are made in violation of the technology - the structure is made of many layers.

The diagram shows the following.

  1. The first layer is the mother soil, which is located inside the perimeter of the house and was not removed during construction. construction work. It is leveled and compacted using a tamping plate (machine).
  2. Bulk layers of soil 20 cm thick serve to raise the floor level to the required height. Each layer is compacted after backfilling. The thickness cannot be more than 20 cm, so that the compaction by the machine is of high quality.
  3. A layer of coarse crushed stone (fraction not less than 50 mm). Topping with crushed stone is done 10 - 20 cm thick, after which it is compacted by machine. The purpose of the layer is to compact the soil as much as possible. When compacting crushed stone, point, very large loads are created on the soil, and it becomes compacted.
  4. Leveling with sand or weak cement-sand mortar (preferred). The layer is needed to level the surface of the crushed stone in order to create a flat area for laying waterproofing. The sand is poured abundantly and compacted.
  5. A layer of vapor and waterproofing. Its purpose is to prevent the floors and the entire house from being wetted by steam that comes out of the ground. Vapor and waterproofing plays a key role in the entire structure. The safety of the floor covering, walls, the house as a whole, and the thermal insulation of the floor will depend on the quality and reliability for the entire period of operation.

    Therefore, for steam and waterproofing they choose only quality materials, specifically designed for this purpose. A special long-lasting vapor barrier membrane can be used, or roofing felt in two layers can be used. Laying is carried out with an overlap individual parts by 30 cm, the turn on the walls is made of the same length.

  6. We will consider the insulation layer below. It is usually covered with a plastic film, which serves to prevent the solution from getting into the cracks between the insulation boards, and so that “if something happens” the insulation can be removed from under the screed undamaged.
  7. The screed is the main load-bearing element of the floor structure on the ground. It must be made reinforced and always durable. It redistributes the pressure that is exerted on the floors in the house over a larger area of ​​soil. The screed is filled with lightweight concrete or cement-sand mortar high strength with a thickness of at least 5 centimeters.

    It is usually reinforced with a mesh with a cell size of 5-7 centimeters and a wire thickness of 2-3 centimeters, laid at a height of 1-2 centimeters. In the case of creating heated floors, the screed is made using a special technology, the mesh is placed on polyethylene, and a pipeline with a coolant laid in a special configuration is tied to it. Fiber fiber binders are added to the screed, as well as plasticizers to impart strength and elasticity during thermal expansion. The screed is also divided into small squares with seams 2 cm wide to prevent critical tension.

  8. Flooring. Any floor covering can be laid on ground floors. And with " warm floors» can only be combined special types floor coverings.

Choosing insulation that does not accumulate water

Let's take a closer look at the issue of choosing insulation for floors on the ground. Quite a lot of heat insulators suitable for screed are advertised on sale. They have different names, but this diversity is deceptive; under different names, basically the same thing is hidden.

Fundamentally, all insulation materials are divided into two large classes - steam-waterproof and those that are saturated with water and allow water vapor to pass through them.

It is advisable to lay vapor-proof materials under the floor screed on the ground. Mainly due to the risk of breaking the vapor barrier from the ground. Because there is no ventilation for the insulation in this design.

Beware of mineral wool slabs

As you know, without ventilation, insulation that allows steam and moisture to pass through is not permissible, even in places where the occurrence of excessive humidity is unlikely.

Therefore, it is not entirely clear the purpose of durable mineral wool slabs, which, by the way, are advertised for sealing under screed. The dew point in the construction of floors on the ground will be exactly in the insulation; it can become saturated with moisture through the concrete both above and below, and will lose its properties.

Therefore, the choice falls exclusively on a vapor barrier - an insulation that will not care what kind of vapors move and where, and will not lose its properties from their influence. Basically, extruded polystyrene foam is used under the screed.

Possible options

  • filling with polyurethane foam high density. But it is more difficult to create a flat top surface. We need special technology, which makes the work even more expensive.
  • Very durable foam glass is suitable. But it is many times more expensive, and its layer will be required more due to the 2 times higher thermal conductivity coefficient, in addition, you need to carefully look at the load and strength of the material itself...

In general, there is currently no reasonable alternative to polystyrene foam under the screed.

Selected features of creating an insulating layer

The thickness of expanded polystyrene should not be less than 10 centimeters, or heat leakage into the ground will be too significant, the design is considered by standards not to be economically feasible.

But it is advisable to increase the thickness of this insulation in floors on the ground even more - up to 15 centimeters. A one-time cost that will pay off later. After all, the house should be used for a very long time?

Typically, insulation is laid in two layers, with the seams in the top layer offset relative to the bottom. All cracks are sealed with scraps of polystyrene foam and its shavings.

Use together with insulation vapor barriers is not allowed. polyurethane foam. It is saturated with moisture as easily as mineral wool, but at the same time it loses its structure and collapses.

Along the contour of the room, polystyrene foam boards are installed, 3 cm thick and high at the level of the screed. Those. The screed should not touch the walls anywhere.

Also if linear dimension the screed exceeds 3 - 4 meters, it is recommended to break it with a 2 cm wide seam, which is filled with polystyrene foam to maintain integrity during drying and temperature changes.

Ground floors, properly insulated, are an excellent basis for any floor covering.

Thermal insulation of floors in a private house is associated with the design features of the house. It can be with or without a basement. In the latter case, the floor is installed on the ground, with a screed or concrete slab laid separately from the walls. However, concrete, of course, cannot protect against the cold and provide comfort in the house, so insulation is necessary.

This installation option is not suitable for all places, for example, if the water level in the ground is high, or they have soil with a loose structure and can swell.

The installation of floors is a multi-layer structure, in which the installation of insulation is a mandatory measure.

Features of the technology

This type of thermal insulation is considered one of the most effective, but at the same time very labor-intensive. It's connected with preliminary preparation soil under the building. The specificity of installing the insulating layer is that it is not rigidly attached to the walls of the building. Therefore, in addition to thermal insulation, you should pay attention Special attention for minimal shrinkage of the entire structure during further operation.

In the vast majority of cases this type insulation is used for belt type foundation. It should only be performed after final hardening. supporting structure building. There is a certain scheme for performing work, which consists of the following stages:

  • Soil preparation. It consists of treating the soil layer by thoroughly compacting the surface.
  • Backfill made of gravel and sand. This layer is necessary for minimal shrinkage of the structure, and will also partially perform waterproofing functions.
  • Concrete pad. The base on which the insulation will be installed.
  • Installation of the first layer of moisture insulation. Required for high groundwater levels.
  • Thermal insulation layer. May consist of various types of insulation, ranging from available natural materials and ending with modern polymer structures.
  • Secondary waterproofing layer. Installed only for thermal insulation materials with hydrophobic properties: basalt wool, expanded clay, a mixture of clay and wood shavings.
  • Concrete screed with reinforcing mesh. It is the basis for installing a finished floor.

Compared to other insulation methods, this technique is characterized by increased labor intensity and strict requirements for all layers. As a result, they should form an effective and reliable floor insulation cake. Therefore, the order of its arrangement should be considered in detail.

Layer options

Insulation of the floor on the ground is carried out in two ways: they differ in the design of the underlying layer. The main criterion for choosing the number of layers when insulating a floor is the composition of the soil and the groundwater level. If there is a possibility that the latter will rise to the heat-insulating layer, additional waterproofing measures should be taken. In each case, the floor insulation device must comply with a specific scheme.

Concrete base layer

Such a floor insulation cake can be considered basic. The design of this flooring option includes the following layers.

  • Compacted. Often the soil that was removed when digging the foundation, of course, except for black soil and peat, is filled back in. Moreover, it is compacted every 200 mm times. This is one of the measures to eliminate or at least reduce the risk of cracking of the future floor.
  • Compacting with crushed stone. Moistened crushed stone of a fraction of 20-60 mm is covered with a layer of 70 mm, leveled and compacted with a tamper. Its main task is to further compact the soil.
  • Underlying concrete. It would be more correct to consider lean concrete a technological rather than a structural layer of the pie. It is used as a basis for waterproofing. Optimal thickness at the underlying layer - approximately 60–70 mm. M100 concrete is used for its production. The concrete is laid evenly, without sudden changes, since this determines the density of the insulation and waterproofing.

On a note

After laying the insulation, the height difference should not be more than three to five millimeters per 2-meter strip.

  • Waterproofing. In the role waterproofing material, as a rule, a built-up roofing material, polymer-bitumen or PVC membrane or simple polyethylene film laid in two layers.
    Insulation. The main insulation is usually laid horizontally dry. The quality and integrity of thermal insulation is determined by the thoroughness of the joints between sheets or slabs. Cold bridges may form on the side of the foundation walls. To eliminate this phenomenon, it is necessary to additionally lay 40–50 mm of insulation vertically. Secure it with dowels. The upper surface of the main insulation layer should be located at a level corresponding to the horizontal waterproofing of the foundation. There are several options for choosing insulation.
  • Vapor barrier. The most optimal solution in terms of quality/price ratio, these are polymer-bitumen membranes based on polyester and fiberglass. PVC membranes are more durable, they are not subject to rotting, however, this material is also more expensive. You can make a vapor barrier from polyethylene film, which must be laid in two layers.

Attention

Polyethylene film can be easily damaged during the concrete pouring process, and it is almost impossible to control its integrity.

  • Cement strainer. It is made from M100 mortar and reinforced with a wire mesh ø 4–6 mm, and the cell size is 100 by 100 mm.

sand cushion

The difference between these sexes is the absence concrete preparation, which is replaced by laying a 150 mm sand cushion. The sequence of constructing the floor pie is the same. With this option for installing ground floors, it is, of course, more difficult to ensure that the base is even across the entire surface.

Methods of thermal insulation of floors

Depending on the required thermal insulation indicator, it is necessary to select best option insulation. Until recently, the choice was not particularly large - expanded clay or a mixture of sawdust and clay. But with the advent of modern polymer materials it became possible to use different ways heat preservation when laying a floor on the ground. But first let's look at what has already become classic way— floor insulation with clay and sawdust.

Its advantage lies in the low cost of its constituent elements.

At the first stage, natural clay must be mixed with water and prepared liquid solution. It is best to use a concrete mixer for this. Pre-clean dry clay from debris. Approximate ratio 1:5 (water/clay). The resulting mixture should sit for 2-3 days. This is necessary for complete dissolution. You need to periodically add water to the container and stir. Before applying clay to the waterproofing surface, dry sawdust is added to it - about 20% of the total volume.

The resulting mixture must be evenly distributed over the surface of the subfloor. The optimal layer thickness should be about 10 cm. However, due to high humidity It takes about 3 weeks for the liquid to evaporate from the clay layer.

However, the use of this method is currently not recommended, since the degree of thermal insulation will be extremely low. Insulation of the floor on the ground is best done using special materials– polystyrene foam, basalt wool or polystyrene foam. In this case, the final result will correspond to optimal thermal savings.

Expanded polystyrene

The structure of polymer polystyrene foam is in many ways similar to traditional polystyrene foam. The same initial components are used for it. The difference lies in their subsequent processing. For achievement good indicator density of the material is exposed to external thermal effects and pressure. This method is called extrusive.

As a result, the insulation acquires the following unique properties, which can be used for arranging floors on the ground:

  • High degree of thermal insulation. The thermal conductivity coefficient varies from 0.025 to 0.032 W/m*K. For installation on a prepared land base you will need sheets with a thickness of 50 to 100 mm, which is significantly less than a layer of expanded clay or sawdust;
  • Waterproof. The main problem with the operation of a dirt floor is the high humidity level. Expanded polystyrene has no high level hygroscopic and almost completely impermeable to moisture. This will protect wooden surface;
  • Easy installation. Installation requires a minimum of tools. The structure is easy to process and, unlike foam, has good mechanical strength.

During installation, the seams between the sheets should be carefully insulated. Through them it is possible not only heat losses, but also groundwater penetration.

A 30 cm layer of gravel is laid at the base of the floor, which is then covered with a 10 cm thick concrete screed. Laying options polystyrene foam boards there are two.

PSB slabs are laid on waterproofing: if the material is thin - in two rows, observing the bandaging of the seams, if thick - in one. The total thickness of the thermal insulation is 10 cm. Next, a screed (cement) with a thickness of at least 4 cm is placed on top of the polystyrene foam. The screed is reinforced with polymer or steel mesh and lay the flooring on top of it.

The difference between these options is the sequence of layers of hydro- and thermal insulation. When laying waterproofing on top of insulation slabs, the solution when pouring the screed does not get between its slabs and thus eliminates the formation of cold bridges. In this case, it is very important to calculate the total thickness of these layers so that the levels of waterproofing and horizontal insulation of the walls coincide.

Extruded polystyrene foam


Plates made of this material are harder, so they are able to withstand significant loads. It is laid on gravel. Low moisture absorption makes it possible to use them in places where the soil has a high water level. The thermal conductivity coefficient of the insulation is quite small, so the thickness of the thermal insulation can start from 8 cm.

Polyurethane foam



IN in this case Of all the options for polyurethane foam boards, the most rigid ones are suitable - PUR and PIR, more modern material. This material has a homogeneous structure with closed cells. There are also slabs covered on both sides with fiberglass or aluminum foil. Thereby thermal insulation properties polyurethane foam boards increase, and its vapor permeability decreases. The slabs are laid on waterproofing. Given the low thermal conductivity, thinner slabs can be chosen. Laying slabs is often replaced with sprayed polyurethane foam.

Mineral wool boards



Mineral wool slabs must be rigid, which are characterized by resistance to deformation and high density. The material is laid, like expanded polystyrene, in one or two layers. To reduce water absorption, the slabs are treated with a hydrofibizing agent. For a layer of mineral wool insulation, a thickness of 10 cm is sufficient.

The fibrous structure of mineral wool requires insulation not only from the ground, but also from layers laid directly on it.

Expanded clay



This material has a light and porous granular texture. To make it, clay that is crushed and fired in a special way is used. For insulation on the ground, expanded clay of fraction 8-16 mm is chosen. When backfilling a thick layer of material, additional waterproofing may not be installed.

Expanded clay in the floor structure replaces layers of gravel, screed and thermal insulation. Fill it up, layer by layer (thickness 15 cm), compacting it. To facilitate the work, after laying the expanded clay is poured with a thin layer of concrete. The next day, a “crust” forms on the surface, on which waterproofing is laid.

Penoizol

This is liquid foam, which after application acquires sufficient rigidity. To install it, you will need special equipment. After pouring, a porous structure is formed with good thermal insulation properties.

For preparation you will need two components - urea resins with additives and a foaming agent. After mixing them under pressure, the temperature of the liquid can rise to +70°C. This process must be controlled.

After filling all the voids, the layer acquires the following properties:

  • Thermal conductivity - from 0.031 to 0.040 W/m*K;
  • Doesn't respond to organic solvents, fungus or mold do not form in its structure;
  • Low bending strength. Installation of a protective surface is required.

Due to the complexity of installation, penoizol is used only for insulating large areas. In the case of arranging a floor on the ground for a house with average area its use is inappropriate.

Non-standard options for floor insulation on the ground

1st floor. The reason is the lack of ventilation, low base, idiot builders. The design is simple: posts, beams, floor. I don’t want to make new beams; the foundation is low and, moreover, tightly divided into separate sections. Those. It is impossible to periodically inspect the condition of the subfloor and beams.
I want to radically solve the problem. Make backfill floors on the ground and forget about it. But the design raises questions:
1. Option - compacted gravel 6 cm, expanded clay 30 cm, expanded clay concrete with reinforcement 10 cm, PE film insulation, flat logs 50X100, floorboard. Is it necessary to do waterproofing before expanded clay? And I think expanded clay is cold.
2. Option - morning. gravel - 6 cm, compacted sand - in height, polystyrene foam 35 - 10 cm, PE film, reinforced screed - 6 cm, PE film, joists, floorboard.
Joists and floorboards because the concrete is cold.
It seems to me that laying the same laminate on concrete is impossible.
I have no experience with backfill floors. I made all the floors using joists, but the garage floor doesn’t count. What am I afraid of? Ambiguous behavior of the floor relative to the foundation in winter spring period. The soil under the house is isolated from internal heat at home he may start walking. GWV is close. They write on forums about possible cracking, etc. To combat it, you need to make a thick screed, and this will negate the insulation. In addition, the presence of a massive top screed above the insulation means introducing cold condenser into the insulated area, with corresponding problems of moisture condensation. Heating is intermittent. This suggests moving the screed under the PPS. and then you can discard one layer of film. What to put on the teaching staff? OSB? And just laminate without joists and boards? Unfortunately there are a lot of questions!

I'm waiting for your advice.
Sincerely.

Last edited by moderator: 11/21/17

  • dnd

    Blocked

    Newbie

    How would I do it?

    1. I would fill in compacted sand at the required level.




    6. I would lay laminate flooring.

    Well, somewhere like that. If you need details like what to do step by step - write, I’ll write it down detailed instructions.

    ZY I have practical experience. The floor is not cold, and it's not all that expensive.

  • 1. I would fill in compacted sand at the required level.

    2. Covered everything with waterproofing, heated the waterproofing in the joints with a flame..
    Agree. PE film does not inspire confidence, or it must be placed between the screeds
    3. I would lay 20! cm of polystyrene foam, taking into account 5 cm at the edges, would lead up the outer walls to a “warm” wall. All layers of foam with offset seams.

    4. I would pour 10 cm of concrete into the resulting polystyrene foam trough, with two reinforcing mesh, just take a road mesh.

    5. I would lay a Devi heating cable in the upper part of the concrete and make an electric heated floor. Without fanaticism, without trying to heat the floor with it.
    .

    7. If I were afraid of soil freezing, I would insulate the blind area and basement of the building with EPS.

    This next stage. To insulate the blind area, I want to crush the remains of PPS 15, mix with cement milk and pour into the trench along the perimeter of the foundation

  • Registration: 09/26/07 Messages: 341 Thanks: 86

    dnd

    Blocked

    Newbie

    Registration: 09/26/07 Messages: 341 Thanks: 86 Address: Moscow

    Why do I want crushed stone down there, because I'm afraid of mice. They say that there are no mice in expanded clay, but expanded clay cannot be compacted - you will get dust

    Mice don’t really care, they’ll crawl through the foam, they’ll climb onto this rubble..
    Mice live in expanded clay without problems. Only a good cat can save you from a mouse; nothing else can save you.

    What do you call polystyrene foam? If this is PPP 15 then 20 cm per 100 sq. I can afford it for the money. If it is PPP 35, 50, or God forbid EPS, then the toad will strangle. Allow me to put only 10 cm?

    I won’t allow it, the house must be energy efficient, we live in the 21st century. PBS-S-35 - costs 1350 rubles per cubic meter. Put it down. 10 cm layer. You can have 5, but this is for entertainers..

    4. I would pour 10 cm of concrete into the resulting polystyrene foam trough, with two reinforcing mesh, just take a road mesh.
    Is it concrete? Those. crushed stone, sand, cement, water to taste? Two reinforcing mesh= spatial reinforcement? Something cool for a slab lying entirely flat on a (relatively) solid base.

    Do you want checkers or go?? Those who saved on this later complained that everything was cracked, the plaster was removed, the client left. There is no need to skimp on the strength of the floor!! And reinforcement - road mesh costs 65 rubles per square. I propose to make it not from 14 reinforcements with a pitch of 150, but from a regular welded mesh.

    5. I would lay a Devi heating cable in the upper part of the concrete and make an electric heated floor. Without fanaticism, without trying to heat the floor with it.
    To protect the concrete from the cold, I’m thinking of using penofol ~ 10 mm.

    To refuse penofol, after 20 cm of foam plastic, is a completely useless waste of money, it will not provide any heat, but a wire for 36 tyres, already with a sensor, will.

    The base still needs to be insulated in the floors along the ground; one blind area will not be enough.

  • Registration: 07/05/07 Messages: 560 Thanks: 304

    I won’t allow it, the house must be energy efficient, we live in the 21st century. PBS-S-35 - costs 1350 rubles per cubic meter. Put it down. 10 cm layer. You can have 5, but this is for entertainers..

    PSB 35 on Mosstroy 31 for 2800 rubles/cubic. From dealers like Komsnab I bought 2600 with delivery. Therefore, I will hang myself, but no more than 15 cm.

    Do you want checkers or go?? Those who saved on this later complained that everything was cracked, the plaster was removed, the client left. There is no need to skimp on the strength of the floor!! And reinforcement - road mesh costs 65 rubles per square. I propose to make it not from 14 reinforcements with a pitch of 150, but from a regular welded mesh.

    I want to give up concrete altogether. Lay OSB on the PSB in 2 layers of 10 mm each, laying logs and boards on it. I'll lie on the boards myself

    To refuse penofol, after 20 cm of foam plastic, is a completely useless waste of money, it will not provide any heat, but a wire for 36 tyres, already with a sensor, will.

    I won’t use penofol if there is no concrete. There is a warm floor in the bath and then water.

    Where and what kind of waterproofing should be installed?

    The base still needs to be insulated in the floors along the ground; one blind area will not be enough.

    This is undeniable! But now, as always, I want everything for nothing, so instead of extrusion, I’m thinking of using PSB 35 on the base, and on it tiles using DSP.

  • Registration: 05.22.08 Messages: 3 Thanks: 0

    ous

    Newbie

    Registration: 05/22/08 Messages: 3 Thanks: 0 Address: Peter

    I’m going to do it in my bathhouse as follows: slag (already lying there), tamp it down, cover it with 5-10 cm of sand, tamp it down. Waterproofing (film 200 microns in two layers). Expanded clay 20 cm, pour cement laitance on top. Next comes waterproofing again. The screed on top is floating, reinforced with mesh - 10 cm. In the washroom there are tiles on top, in the steam room there are logs and a tongue-and-groove board. Between the foundation and the screed there is 30mm foam.
  • Registration: 07/05/07 Messages: 560 Thanks: 304

    Expanded clay at 20 cm is simply nothing. Already discussed on the forum. Some people have 1 m of expanded clay concrete in their bathhouse, and the water on the floor freezes. Maybe the slag will save you, but I don’t know the thickness, and then the slag is a concentrator of radioactivity from burnt coal. The presence of waterproofing on top and bottom of expanded clay is understandable. 24% moisture consumption of expanded clay is a large indicator. But the PE will tear against the expanded clay when pouring. 10 cm of concrete is a hefty piece of cold under the floor. Those. under the joists on the concrete there will be water from the humid air in the bathhouse. Lay the waterproofing over the concrete, there will still be water on the insulation under the joists. If you seal the top of a piece of wood, it will rot. Will you raise the joists and put a heat insulator between them? Then why all the hemorrhoids with the floor on the ground? I don’t know why I want to do about the same thing. Can you come up with something hanging to insulate the joist and floor from the moisture of the ground?

  • I agree with D@ndelion: “The miser pays twice.”
    Only one calculation for foundation insulation:

    I want to give up concrete altogether. Lay OSB on the PSB in 2 layers of 10 mm each, laying logs and boards on it. I'll lie on the boards myself
    I approve if there is EPPS, at least upper layer. D@ndelion*it’s good - you can wait a week or two until the screed gains strength. What if there is nowhere to live? Two sheets of plywood, csp, OSB, SML in a checkerboard pattern, “stitched” with self-tapping screws - an excellent base for a finished floor (to be honest, I don’t like this dirty work of “kneading”, which is easier to just go through carefully with a screwdriver).

  • Registration: 07/05/07 Messages: 560 Thanks: 304

    Only one calculation for foundation insulation:
    1. EPPS for 4000 (you can find it cheaper) x 0.05 = 200 rubles per m2 for your finishing
    2. Your PSB-S-35 2800x0.05 = 140 rubles per m2 + DSP (is it cheaper than 60 rubles per m2?).
    Where are the savings? Plus the risk of moisture absorption of the DSP, I’m not even talking about the fact that it’s equal to EPS thermal resistance you already need 60mm PSBS (another 10 rubles per square).

    The fact of the matter is that it’s not 0.05 but 0.2 and it turns out with EPPS 800 r/sq.m. And this is the price without delivery. Thermal conductivity coefficient is 0.037 and 0.030. Therefore, the thickness of PSB and EPS is the same. The density is the same. Why overpay?

    I don’t understand how you can join two sheets of 10 mm screws together without damaging the underlying film? And why 2 sheets? Ride in cars? OSB sheet 3 sq/m, DSP sheet 3.5 sq/m. for a room of 18 sq/m there will be 6 sheets. On them there are 100x50 logs lying at 100, every 60 cm along the axes. The joists have a cohesive plank flooring. Isn't that enough? And the refusal of concrete is not for the sake of time (time car), but in order to pull a cold huge piece of stone out of the warm zone and remove the dew point inside the PSB

  • Registration: 11/14/07 Messages: 4,330 Thanks: 5,470

    Just think, build...

    Registration: 11/14/07 Messages: 4,330 Thanks: 5,470 Address: Moscow

    I don’t understand why you would put a thick layer of polystyrene foam in the floor along the ground. In the ground, unlike atmospheric air, in winter it’s always plus 5-7 degrees. Thin layer 4 cm of EPS, placed on top of a thin (5-7 cm) concrete screed with waterproofing underneath, guarantees sufficient insulation and dryness of the floor. Insulating the sidewall of the plinth and the blind area, as D@ndelion writes, will naturally improve the design.
    Can be laid on top of EPS floor tiles(after covering the end-to-end foam sheets with an additional 3 mm layer of tile adhesive reinforced with Mylar painting mesh).
    Another option is to lay plywood on top of the EPS, screwing it with anchors to concrete screed. Place anything on top of the plywood: parquet, floorboard, carpet, laminate, linoleum, etc.
  • Registration: 06/20/08 Messages: 22 Thanks: 0

    Bad77

    Participant

    Registration: 06.20.08 Messages: 22 Thanks: 0 Address: Vladimir

    Another option is to lay plywood on top of the EPS, screwing it with anchors to the concrete screed. Place anything on top of the plywood: parquet, floorboards, carpet, laminate, linoleum, etc.
    anchor-bridge of cold... it turns out.
    I agree with the rest! 15-20 cm on the ground is too much...
    A neighbor threw 4 cm of EPS, a 5 cm screed with a heated floor on it. Everything is good. The concrete slab over the EPS is quite inert, and judging by the fact that the warm floor is not turned on/off very often, the heat loss is small. Otherwise the counter would have been screwed up. Now I’ll do this for myself: compacted soil with stones, spilled sand cushion, waterproofing from glass hydroisol, 5-6 cm rough screed unreinforced, 6-7 cm EPS (I got this one, I didn’t refuse the free 2.5 cubes), on EPS reinforced with a 10X10 mesh 7 cm screed with communications inside, then tiles. Along the perimeter of the screeds there is 2 cm 35-density foam.
    Take care of yourself.Bad
  • Registration: 02.28.08 Messages: 998 Thanks: 338

    boa2011! Don't be so nervous, calm down. Here they give advice and it is your right to listen to them or not.
    Another piece of advice:
    1. 20 cm for foundation insulation (that’s what I wrote about) / vertical outer wall tapes/ this is “overkill” even for Siberia
    2. "Thermal conductivity coefficient is 0.037 and 0.030. Therefore, the thickness of PSB and EPS is the same. The density is the same. Why overpay?"
    Look only at the documents (for PSBS_35 from SNiP!!-3-79 in the conditions of “Be!” 0.05, For EPPS in any vehicle 0.032 (0.03)) Not the same!!
    If we compare by density (volumetric weight), then the most best car BELAZ - heavy.
    3. Two-layer “stitching” is an axiom of “prefabricated screeds”. Even I, far over 100 kg, can dance
  • As statistics have shown, modern owners private houses no longer need to clearly demonstrate heat-saving technologies - each owner independently strives to make his home as warm and comfortable as possible.

    Loggia insulation and insulation plastic windows not everything you need modern cottage– thermal insulation of the chimney, entrance group, installation quality system heating... The list can go on forever, but today we will talk about an equally important process - insulating the soil around the foundation.

    So, let's start with the fact that your heating costs largely depend on the thermal insulation of your floor. With thermal insulation, you will have to spend significantly less gas, firewood and other fuels.

    Note!
    Heat loss with an uninsulated floor can amount to up to 20% of the total heat volume - aren’t these figures alarming?
    And what does this even mean?
    And the fact that there will be a constant smell of dampness in your house, you and your family members will be susceptible to colds and, finally, the most common drawback is constant drafts.

    Floor insulation - basic concepts

    If you type the phrase “floor insulation” into a search engine, the system will give you several thousand pages with building materials. But if you look closely, we essentially have nothing to choose from. The rich variety of materials by brand names looks rather meager if you look at things from the point of view of a specialist - most insulators have the same properties, whether it is loose or fibrous.

    Material selection

    So, before you consider Construction Materials, let's turn to the theory, without which in the future it will be difficult for you to understand what we are talking about.

    In general, the main parameter for the effectiveness of a material is its heat transfer resistance value. If we look at the formulas, it will look like this – R (m²°C/W).

    The value of heat transfer resistance can be calculated using the formula: R=a/b. Where a is the thickness of the insulation (measured in meters), and b is the calculated thermal conductivity coefficient (W/m°C). You can find this formula in many advertising brochures, and also, if you come across instructions from Rockwool insulation, you will see it ready-made, with the values ​​​​substituted in place of the designations.

    What does it give us? this formula? It’s simple - the resulting value for floors on the ground should be greater than 3, and for floors - equal to or greater than 2.

    Remember!
    Insulation for floors on the ground must have increased density in order to withstand the fairly serious weight of not only the floor, but also other dynamic loads.
    For example, simple mineral wool must have a density of at least 100 kg per square meter, foam plastic not less than 35 kg, etc.

    Now pay your attention to the table below, in which we have selected different kinds insulation specifically for this case.

    Material

    Material density kg/m³

    Thermal conductivity (W/m °C)

    Thickness of one layer, m

    Resistance value

    Mineral wool

    Styrofoam

    Extruded foam

    Expanded clay concrete

    Perlite concrete

    Expanded clay gravel

    Cement-polystyrene foam mortar

    So, if you carefully studied the table, you probably realized that the situation is by no means clear-cut. Insulating the floor with expanded clay over the ground is unlikely to remain on your list according to the results. Why? Because to create good thermal insulation you will need a layer that is too thick.

    Cement-polystyrene mortar and perlite concrete are not far behind expanded clay, but the remaining leaders certainly deserve our attention.


    Technology issue

    In general, there are two options for laying insulation on the ground, and their difference lies only in the underlying layers.

    Now let's look at the most popular of them, which consists of following types layers (all listings occur sequentially, as prescribed by the technology):


    Attention!
    After you install the insulation, take care of a second layer of waterproofing that goes over it.
    This is necessary in order to avoid the insulation from getting wet from the house (accidental flood, burst water supply pipe, etc.).

    Once again, here is a picture showing the order in which the layers should be laid.

    Important!
    The top of the insulation must be located at the same level as the waterproofing of the foundation!

    1. Screed. To do this you will need M100 cement and reinforced mesh, with which you will not only strengthen the foundation, but also be able to avoid cracks.

    As for the second method, which we mentioned above, everything is simple here - instead of rough concrete preparation, an ordinary “cushion” of sand is laid (layer thickness is approximately 15-20 cm).

    Conclusion

    It turns out that it is quite possible to insulate your floor with your own hands without the involvement of expensive specialists. It is enough to have only some construction skills and carefully read our advice. In the video presented in this article you will find Additional information on this topic. Good luck!

    Return

    ×
    Join the “koon.ru” community!
    In contact with:
    I am already subscribed to the community “koon.ru”